This is a question that faces us as we look to forming a true Messianic Judaism. This question is irrelevant for a “Messianic Movement”, which is really just Hebrew Christianity under a new name. This is an issue for a Judaism to deal with and in our discussion vital for a Messianic Judaism. As a Judaism we must ask Jewish questions and be prepared to give Jewish answers.
As a Judaism, we face a challenging issue, namely the place of Non-Jews in Messianic Judaism and in the life of Messianic Jewish synagogues. This may seem to be a disturbing concept to many that see Messianic Judaism as the “Jewish Church” and the place of Messianic Judaism being the Jewish cultural form of the Universal Christian Church. But we have to deal with the issue of Non-Jews in our midst, are they a part of synagogue life or merely supportive attendees? Below I will categorize some types of Non-Jews in our midst:
1. The Pro-Israel Christian
2. The “Anti-Church” Christian
3. The Supporter of the “Jewish Church”
4. The Involved Synagogue Attender
5. The Committed Non-Jew
• The Pro-Israel Christian attends a Messianic Synagogue on Shabbat and a Christian Church on Sunday. They support Israel and the Jewish People. They also enjoy the music and dancing that is a part of our Movement. But their theology and faith commitment is to Christianity. They may at times comment that we are being “too Jewish”. These Non-Jews make up a part of our Movement, yet their commitments lie within the Church.
• The “Anti-Church” Christian is a Gentile Christian who out of a protest or rejection of the Church attends a Messianic synagogue. They pose a problem to Messianic Judaism because their involvement in our Movement is not for us, but as a protest against their problem with the Church. They are not committed to a Jewish life and over time will find something about Messianic Judaism to turn them against us. These are the most problematic Non-Jews.
• The Supporter of the “Jewish Church” is a Gentile Christian that sees Messianic Judaism as the “Jewish Church” akin to Hispanic and Korean Churches. They support us as a cultural form of Christianity. This is the place of understanding of my own mother. She has attended services and Seders at the various congregations that I have attended yet she sees us as like the Hispanic and Vietnamese Churches that meet on the grounds of her Baptist Church. These Non-Jews support our existence, though their understanding of us is flawed. These Non-Jews make up the bulk of Christians that support the Messianic Jewish Movement.
• The Involved Synagogue Attender is the Non-Jew that makes up a large part of the Non-Jews in Messianic Synagogues. They have taken to the synagogue and to aspects of Jewish life. Though much of the expression of Judaism is based in the synagogue. They have a commitment that is more than mere attendance. They observe Shabbat and the Festivals in synagogue life and study Jewish books, but they are content as they are as Non-Jews in a Messianic synagogue.
• The Committed Non-Jew is the Non-Jew that has been called to Messianic Judaism and has been drawn to a Jewish life. Beyond the commitment of the Involved Synagogue Attender, they seek to follow Torah in all aspects of daily life, including Shabbat and Kashrut. The Committed Non-Jew’s commitment to Messianic Judaism and the larger Jewish world marks a clear distinction in their commitment and calling. They like the Egyptians that left Egypt and with Israel stood at Mt. Sinai have been drawn to the G-d of Israel and to the People of Israel in a unique way. This commitment can lead to “conversion” or “commitment” to Judaism in Rabbinic Judaism. Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist and even Humanistic Judaism have a mechanism/process for The Committed Non-Jew to cast their lot with Israel. Though many conversions to Judaism in Rabbinic Judaism is for marriage to a Jewish person, of those in Messianic Judaism the prime desire of many is a commitment to Judaism and the Jewish people.
A Messianic Jewish conversion process would be an outward affirmation by the Messianic Jewish community of an inward commitment that many have made years ago. These Committed Non-Jews have walked a Torah life and meet the Torah’s requirements of Shabbat and Passover observance, only lacking brit milah or dam brit to complete the process.
As a Judaism we have to deal with this issue of The Committed Non-Jew, if we are going to truly be a Judaism. This does not discredit the other Non-Jews in our Movement, of which the Involved Synagogue Attender plays an important role, but it marks out a process or rite of passage for The Committed Non-Jew, to complete the process of commitment to Judaism that has begun in their life.
There is a concern about a possible “bandwagon effect” if Messianic Judaism established a conversion process. This fear is unfounded if the Rabbis and leaders follow strict guidelines. Of the Non-Jews that I know in my synagogue only 2 or 3 would seek this conversion process and all have been involved in Messianic synagogues for many years. These are people who have a calling to sojourn with Israel and who as Non-Jews seek to make Torah their life.
So then, how can we hold back the “bandwagon effect or “mass conversion” of Non-Jews to Messianic Judaism?
First off, like in Rabbinic Judaism the Rabbis and leaders must rebuff those seeking conversion, so as to test their commitment to the process. This rebuffing is also a test of the calling and commitment to the whole of Jewish life.
Also important is education in that the prospective convert must be committed to a Jewish life and to their connection to all of Israel not just “saved Jews”. The prospective convert must be actively a part of the life of a Messianic synagogue and have training and knowledge of Torah and Jewish practice. They should also stand before and be examined by a Beit Din made up of recognized Messianic Jewish leaders in which there commitment to Jewish life will be examined. Also of great importance is that for prospective male converts brit milah or dam brit must be done. Circumcision is the sign of the Covenant in the flesh and this must be a part of the conversion process. At least for men this will be a real sign of commitment to Judaism and a Jewish life. The prospective convert should also go through immersion as the final act of commitment to Messianic Judaism. Also important in the process is the taking of a Hebrew name, as they become son or daughter of Abraham and Sarah.
We stand in an awkward place in that the writers of the Brit Chadasha expected the Messianic Age in their lifetime and they did not address the issue of the Non-Jew within the Messianic synagogue. They did not foresee the two millennia that would pass since the time of Yeshua and we stand to define ourselves without direct guidance from the early Messianic Jews. Though the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, addresses required conversion to Judaism of Non-Jews before joining the Messianic community, the Council did not rule on voluntary conversion of which the concluding phrase “Moshe is preached in all the synagogues every Shabbat” leaves open a deeper commitment and even a “conversion” of the Messianic Non-Jew to Judaism. The requiring of Non-Jews to convert to Judaism is clearly forbidden by the Council and we should seek to speak out against any “Messianic” group that begins conversion as a requirement for affiliation. This conversion to Messianic Judaism is for those who have a calling and commitment to Judaism and to the Jewish people and is truly an external confirmation of an internal “conversion” experience.
If we are going to be a Judaism, a true Messianic Judaism, we have to deal with the issue of the Non-Jews in our synagogues and to especially deal with the issue of the Committed Non-Jew.
SO in 5 years or so, after attending a Messianic Congregation and observing Torah in my own home, I as a female could convert pretty easily. What about my 6 year old son (who’d be 9 after my 5 years)? He’s already been circumcised at the hospital when he was born? Would he, if he decided to convert, have to be re-circumcised or would he be considered truly a Messianic Jew because his mom became one? And forgive me if this has been addressed, what about it being a circumcision of the heart?
Also, are we not all echad in Messiah? Have I not been grafted in and G-D only sees those who are HIS and those who are not?
Also this name thing, is Noah considered a Hebrew name?
thank you for addressing these questions.
Yochanan
includes the children of non-Jewish mothers to be raised as Jews and this would include brit milah for boys and bar/bat mitzvah.< <<<
Or as Gene has pointed out in Dereks blog, perhaps those who were unable to do so because of persecution but who openly identified as Jews and suffered for it should strongly be considered in my opinion.
This is different from someone from such a background who was raised in a geographic area relatively free from persecution and whose family made a free choice to raise them as Christian and who continued to embrace this choice as an adult. This is the population I think the RC needs to address.
for those who are not Jews that illegitamately claim jewish status, especially as a “messianic leader” i am in agreement that they are wrong and should be called to account for their misdeeds>>>>
As I said, I hope that you can influence the RC to do something about this. I see no reason why this should not take priority for rectification if indeed this is an oversight.
Menachem
menachem,
I think that what you see as ambiguity is really just an evolving process of development of halakhic standards by the mjrc.
as a student of rabbi dauermann, one of the rabbis involved in the mjrc, i have seen the growth of their work from asking the initial questions about if we are a Judaism and allowing non-Jews to convert to judaism, what is the judaism they are converting to?
(which was the impetus for establishing standards of observance in the first place), to now establishing the standards of observance, an initial step at a guide to jewish observance for messianic jews.
i think that the ambiguity over jewish status will be brought into clearer focus and will be made tighter and will be more in line with the reform definition that includes the children of non-Jewish mothers to be raised as Jews and this would include brit milah for boys and bar/bat mitzvah.
for those who are not Jews that illegitamately claim jewish status, especially as a “messianic leader” i am in agreement that they are wrong and should be called to account for their misdeeds.
Unfortunately there is so much going on in the name of messianic judaism that is wrong, which is really uncontrollable that all we can do for now is to offer a better way and seek to be the true lights for messianic judaism and hope that our light can grow to be seen, even to one day to be able to outshine the false lights of those who oppose our desire for a true Judaism that honors Yeshua as Israel’s Messiah.
There is much work to do…pray that those like me and derek and my friends at yachad will do the work necessary to make a messianic judaism future that is a true judaism.
Yochanan:
first off i would like to say< <<
Before you say it I would like to say first off that I admire both yours and Dereks passion for Judaism and I hope that the New Year brings us all closer to achieving your individual desires to join with Israel as well as the larger vision which we both share.
that i think you grant too much influence of rev. yoster
over the whole of messianic judaism. he may be of influence in your area < <<<<<<
I dont know how much Rev Yoster has over the whole of MJ. What I do know is that the Rev Yosters represent themselves as Jews and Jewish leaders not just to the MJ community but also to the Instituional Church. And BTW this is apparantly not limited to my local area but (G-d forbid) rather they are quite active in Israel .
They are speaking on “my” behalf in “dialogue” with these people as if they were Jews. Given what they have publically said about Jews and Judaism this may not at all be benign.
on a decline especially among those who share my perspective < <<<
Yohanan: I understand this. Do you or I have a real understanding of what this represents in terms of demographics in the movement, present or future? As Stalin once said of the Pope “How many divisions does he have?” From what I understand from my friends in the RC numbers and funds are small at this time.which is in alignment with the goals and direction of the MJRC.< <<<<
The Rev Yosters are free to take advantage of the RC without in any way having to follow its directives. I dont want to presume to question the collective motives of leaving this question so ambiguous but one wonders if in fact the MJRC would not be in part looking over its collective shoulder at the looming presence of the Rev Yosters in the MJ community. He has the numbers the power and the money. This can be formidable and I would not blame them for taking pause before offending such people. Having said that this limits their utility as a force for change until they are collectively able to make a clear statement about this. It appears to me that they are not at this time able to articulate one. Or perhaps they agree with the Rev Yosters in ways that I dont know in which case you would be wrong to depend upon them. In either instance the matter could begin to be clarified with more precision about what is required to be considered a Jew. A la the Reform Halacha.
i think that you need to step back and see what has been done through the MJRC and other like minded groups hashivenu, yachad, etc.< <<<<<<
I think they have accomplished much. To begin with they have helped people like myself be a bit less marginalized. This is primarily due to the power of the internet however. I think it also important for all including yourself to take a deep breath and see the limitations on what they have accomplished in terms of being able to successfully implement true conversion to any sort of a true Judaim.
as currently a seed now of a messianic judaism future. the forest may for the foreseeable future may have “rev. yoster trees” and “jewish missions bushes” as we as messianic judaism seedlings sprout and grow but grow we will and given time for their perspective to wane and their trees/bushes become smaller and our sprouts grow to be the more dominant trees in the forest, our shared dreams can and will be realized.< <<<<
As I said before, I pray that your optimisim about the inevietablity of this outcome is true and that I am wrong. I truly do. However as you can see from the discussion on Dereks thread there are many out there who still believe that there is a superior form of “Biblical Judaism” that exists within MJ.
yes, these being MJRC affiliated synagogues.
MJRC is to make a move toward and to establish a messianic judaism…. responsive to torah and halakha that< <<
If you have any influence with them I would encourage them to tighten up in the areas I discussed.
the fulfillment of this vision may not happen in our lifetimes,< <<<<
True but we can do our part to unambigiously make sure that future generations do not mistake what you said and did. How do you know who will succeed this generation in the MJRC in leadership and what they will do with the loosely defined policies as set down?
Something to think about.
menachem,
thanks for commenting.
first off i would like to say that i think you grant too much influence of rev. yoster over the whole of messianic judaism. he may be of influence in your area but i think that in a broader reach he is less of an influence and even on a decline especially among those who share my perspective which is in alignment with the goals and direction of the MJRC.
i think that you need to step back and see what has been done through the MJRC and other like minded groups hashivenu, yachad, etc. as currently a seed now of a messianic judaism future. the forest may for the foreseeable future may have “rev. yoster trees” and “jewish missions bushes” as we as messianic judaism seedlings sprout and grow but grow we will and given time for their perspective to wane and their trees/bushes become smaller and our sprouts grow to be the more dominant trees in the forest, our shared dreams can and will be realized.
will you find a judaism in messianic judaism in most messianic congregations?
no
will you find a judaism in messianic judaism at ahavat zion, ruach israel, shuva israel or zera avraham?
yes, these being MJRC affiliated synagogues.
though for now we are not where we need to be, my passion which is shared by leaders i know in the MJRC is to make a move toward and to establish a messianic judaism grounded in jewish space, responsive to torah and halakha that makes Yeshua known as the Jewish Messiah that is honored by torah faithful jews.
the fulfillment of this vision may not happen in our lifetimes, but the important thing is to do what we can now so that the future generations can make our dream, our prayer a reality!
i will do all i can to that end…
Yochanan
free to comment on our blogs.<
Thank you for the generous offer.
Rabbis Dauermann, Kinzer, Eaton, Saal<
I know all of these except R. Eaton. All fine gifted individuals.
struggle with the difficult issues of what a halalkhic oriented Judaism would look like.< <<
Struggle is the correct term. This is a difficult problem.
I know of only 3 people converted by the MJRC in the 7+ years of it’s existence, so it appears that the bar is set pretty high.< <<
So far I would agree with you.
You sadly are more concerned in running a purge of those non-Jews and Jews of questioned background that don’t meet your standard as your priority. < <<<<
I think you misunderstand my agenda and concerns. That also is sad. If I have miscommunicated then I take the responsibility for that.
The use of the word “purge” has connotations of authoritarian political regimes of the past who eliminated and silenced voices that they disagreed with. This is far from my agenda and indeed from my capability. I have no power within MJ to implement such a “purge” and have never sought to attain such a position. I am a simple Jew pointing out what I see and have seen for years in this movement. I dont desire to harm or purge anyone.
On the contrary it is the Rev Yosters and their like who have demonized their opposition and marginalized the Jews in MJ to the point where MJ is not hospitable to any Jew who simply wishes to practice Judaism while maintaining Yeshua faith. They have made MJ a home for themselves and their comrades from the church, but there is no home for Jews in MJ.
Let’s understand clearly. My mythical Rev Yoster is no victim. Outside the fact that he is a composite non existant person “grin”
he and his colleagues are the ones with the power in MJ and it is they who insist on imposing their vision of what Judaism should be on Jewish people. It is this that I am concerned about. I am not concerned about the desire of people like yourself and Derek to join themselves to the Jewish people.
I have serious concerns about the future of genuine Judaism in MJ. You have confidence in the RC and you cite the qualities of indiduals. I reply that I have learned over time not to underestimate the power of group think to dilute the power and influence of the individuals within that group.
The fact remains that for whatever reason they did it, the RC left in their definition of “who is a Jew” a hole wide enough to accomodate Rev Yoster with room to spare. They simply require patrilineal decent with the decision to be a Jew without any qualification on what the latter means. The Rev Yoster as you recall had a father who converted to Christianity. Rev Yoster was raised as a Christian in the Methodist church and went to a Methodist seminary. When he read the RC standards his reasononing was as follows: “I was brought up to believe in the Jewish Messiah, I do believe in the Jewish Messiah. Ergo I am a Jew under the RC standards. I brought up Joshuah by good Biblical Jewish standards to believe in the Jewish Messiah as well. Ergo he is a Jew”. You might be interested to know that the mythical mirthful Methodist, Rev Yoster went on from this to declare that as a full fledged Jew who was in fact better than the “fleshly Jews” who merely had “matrilineal decent”, he was now free to announce his that he had developed new improved Tefillim with “New Covenant scriptures included” to represent our “NC distinctives”. These would he said be used to fulfill the RC Halachic standards for Tefillim use. He was also proceeding to market these in a joint venture with a major Charismatic ministry to the larger Christian world. After all he noted Benny Hinn has already been selling “New Covenant” tallit. Why not Tefillim?
Obviously the above is satire and hyperbole. But it is based upon real practices that go on in MJ on a daily basis. Recently a friend of mine was asked by an “elder” in a congregation similar to Rev Yosters to stop his practice of quiet davening during the “worship service” ( which consists of people waving flags, screaming, jumping up and down and singing to amplified music) because it was “distracting” from the service.
I think it is better to welcome the commited non-Jews in our midst and we should not forestall this because of those MJ leaders that are not in line with a true Messianic Judaism.< <<<
By all means welcome the committed non Jews, Sean. have much sympathy for such folks including yourself.But what are you welcoming them to? That is what you need to be thinking about. Currently the MJ movement is not Jewish. If you want to be joined to the Jewish people, it cant be done through this movement or any part therof until that part makes a firm commitment to be Jewish. By definition this includes exclusion of some things as well as inclusion.
I personally have recommended and continue to recommend that such committed non Jews seek to join to the Jewish people through traditional channels. Those who do so have my best wishes as do you.
Happy New Year
Menachem
16 September, 2007 13:52
menachem,
thanks for commenting.
i think that both i and derek are open to making this an issue of discussion so feel free to comment on our blogs.
as is have said many times the only form of conversion to judaism via messianic jewish leaders that i endorse and see as legitimate is that of the messianic jewish rabbinical council, which includes Rabbis Dauermann, Kinzer, Eaton, Saal and others that you are familiar and more than likely have met. There qualifications are that they are established, ordained Messianic rabbis that take Judaism seriously and are willing to struggle with the difficult issues of what a halalkhic oriented Judaism would look like.
For Rabbi Nichol’s work on conversion go to:
http://www.ourrabbis.org/main/content/view/18/32/
For more on the halakhic thinking you can read on issues at:
http://www.ourrabbis.org/main/content/blogsection/4/26/
The authority of the rabbis involved in the MJRC has to be established and recognized by their communities much as was and is with Reform, Conservative and Reconstructionist Judaism. They ordained rabbis that set halakhic guidelines, established their own seminaries and trained their future rabbis.
I know of only 3 people converted by the MJRC in the 7+ years of it’s existence, so it appears that the bar is set pretty high. I know that along with a demonstrated commitment of many years to Judaism (10+) and 2 years of Jewish studies and Hebrew language studies is part of the process set down for recommendation for conversion from a rabbi that I know that is on the MJRC.
The important thing on conversion is inclusion of a small group of committed non-Jews (involved in Messianic Jewish synagogal life for at least 10 years and a demonstrated involvement in the larger Jewish world) and a willingness to go through studies, beit din, mikvah and circumcision for males (dam brit for men circumcised as babies).
You sadly are more concerned in running a purge of those non-Jews and Jews of questioned background that don’t meet your standard as your priority.
I think it is better to welcome the commited non-Jews in our midst and we should not forestall this because of those MJ leaders that are not in line with a true Messianic Judaism.
jew-by-birth,
the issues you raise are important and the requirements that you mentioned are exceeded by the standards set forth by the messianic jewish rabbinical council including those seeking conversion have been involved 10-20 years in messianic jewish life.
though i understand your concern over more converts in our shuls, which i think it is vitally important that we see jews coming to see Yeshua as messiah and walking Torah, but we also have to be open to accept those non-Jews willing to join with and become a part of Israel.
Sean
There is a concern about a possible “bandwagon effect” if Messianic Judaism established a conversion process. This fear is unfounded if the Rabbis and leaders follow strict guidelines< <<<
I have been in a discussion of this matter on Derek Lehman’s blog. ( I am sorry but I dont see a forum where Jews who have a concern about this can discuss this.There should be one on a matter as important as this)
I disagree that the fear is unfounded. Where are these “rabbis and leaders” and what are their qualifications to set up the strict guidelines?Furthermore what makes you think that they will stick to them?
This is a politically charged subject and as I have repeatedly pointed out it will take more than knowledge and “honor. It is going to take political courage to say to powerful non Jews in MJ ministry that they are not Jews and dont meet the qualifications for becoming Jews. So far I dont see any candidates stepping forward for this unpleasant task. Who do you have in mind?
Menachem
I think potential converts should be reguired to faithfully attend synagogue and live a Jewish life for a minimum of 5 years, prior to their conversion. If they are married to a Jewish person (may G-d save us from the snare of intermarriage!), 3 years. They should also pass written and oral exams to prove their knowledge of Judaism, so we know they really got what it takes to enter the covenant and be Torah observant Jews.
Of course, they should also be rebuffed by the rabbi, and really have their commitment tested. He should guide them to find a meaningful life as a Gentile Christian, and connect to G-d in that way. If they still want to convert, they should finally be allowed to go on with the process, including beit-din, bris/hatafat dam bris and mikvah.
I would hate seeing more “converts” than born Jews in our community.
G-d bless, have a good week, and keep walking close with Yeshua, our Lord!